Curse

Zenos Squad · Mar 18, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by eVolves

1) Bring back 8v8, 6v6 is just stupid.
2) Bring back altar holding, this is not CS.
3) Hire people to decide game balancing instead of listening to mindless opinionated ranting from players to make a real decision.
4) 1 Izzy does not equal to balanced game.
5) Most players dont even go to forums to post opinions, make more dumb changes and let more people quit like its already happening.
6) Stop releasing new chapters if you cant even balance what you already have.
7) Why the hell is favor even linked to PvP, when favor is needed for PvE? I dont see the connection.
8) It's nice to see that people who played halls earlier got more fame cuz of easier halls, if you really wanna be fair u revert back to 8v8 holding halls like it was in tombs.
9) Less employees = more opinionated decisions and changes = less players = less incoming = even less employees, its a circle...

Anet should learn from WoW, theres a reason blizzard has more players.

Well...HoH is a INTERNATIONAL tournament and obviously the team for their country should have a reward until they are defeated in HoH, so I wouldn't exactly say they weren't linked in pve or pvp terms, but more of a insentive reward from ANet.

Everything else I agree with you btw!

coleslawdressin · Mar 18, 2007, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by baaba

It doesn't matter if the outcome is 6vs6 or 8vs8.

It matters.safasf

Death_From_Above · Mar 18, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by eVolves

1) Bring back 8v8, 6v6 is just stupid.
2) Bring back altar holding, this is not CS.
3) Hire people to decide game balancing instead of listening to mindless opinionated ranting from players to make a real decision.
4) 1 Izzy does not equal to balanced game.
5) Most players dont even go to forums to post opinions, make more dumb changes and let more people quit like its already happening.
6) Stop releasing new chapters if you cant even balance what you already have.
7) Why the hell is favor even linked to PvP, when favor is needed for PvE? I dont see the connection.
8) It's nice to see that people who played halls earlier got more fame cuz of easier halls, if you really wanna be fair u revert back to 8v8 holding halls like it was in tombs.
9) Less employees = more opinionated decisions and changes = less players = less incoming = even less employees, its a circle...

Anet should learn from WoW, theres a reason blizzard has more players.

nice nice summery. Btw ok so izzy makes these descsions, do they go through any1 like if there not good is there anyone who can say dude these changes arnt good were not therefore gonna do it or is it all izzys the top man so wat he says goes? Basicaly anet are being told how to become a good successful company by the HA community and all there doing is stepping on our advice.

coleslawdressin · Mar 18, 2007, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by eVolves

1) Bring back 8v8, 6v6 is just stupid.

So true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eVolves

2) Bring back altar holding, this is not CS.

I don't see what CS has to do with it. I would love to have the old altar holding thing back if it meant we had 8v8 again, but you know what... Realistically this is not going to happen ever. They spent all this time making changes and they aren't just going to cut them all. I would rather hold based on my skill than lose because some broken 8 paragon build you can't kill is holding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eVolves

3) Hire people to decide game balancing instead of listening to mindless opinionated ranting from players to make a real decision.
4) 1 Izzy does not equal to balanced game.

Both Izzy and Morello work on balance now. There are still some issues with individual skills, but I think balance is okay for what we have to work with. There are always going to be "strongest" combinations and people will always complain about them. You are person #4653469346824320 to vaguely complain about balance. Say what you want changed and HOW if you want to be useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eVolves

5) Most players dont even go to forums to post opinions, make more dumb changes and let more people quit like its already happening.

Yep, it is pretty scary that they seem to be making this decision just off these polls. After the very first week of 6v6, they should have been like "WOW that was stupid. OK lets change it back."

Quote:

Originally Posted by eVolves

6) Stop releasing new chapters if you cant even balance what you already have.

Izzy has echoed that sentiment too. New classes were a big selling point, but now its a problem they can't do much about. Hopefully they will learn from this for GW2. I doubt that I will even bother buying chapter 4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eVolves

7) Why the hell is favor even linked to PvP, when favor is needed for PvE? I dont see the connection.

They were very idealistic when they created GW. They wanted more people to PVP not just only farm gold. They made it sound like more than just these farming zones would be tied to favor too. Reality: PVE players are clueless about PVP. They can't get out of underworld, so they just sit in TOA and bitch. No sympathy here from me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eVolves

8) It's nice to see that people who played halls earlier got more fame cuz of easier halls, if you really wanna be fair u revert back to 8v8 holding halls like it was in tombs.

Yea, lets have NR remove all enchantments and you can block the altar with 23098753205 copies of spirits too. Fair isn't going back to really old, broken gameplay. Fair is going back to 8v8, changing kill count, and making more map improvements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eVolves

Anet should learn from WoW, theres a reason blizzard has more players.

Is the reason ELFS? I hate elves and dwarves and crap, can't believe they are adding those. If there are racial bonuses that force me to play some ugly ass gnome necro, I really doubt I will play GW2.

Here is a quote from a dev interview for Warhammer Online. Now this is something they should learn from:

Quote:

1. Realm vs Realm (RvR) Game play. Warhammer Online allows you to level your character entirely through RvR game play, just as you can through PvE, if you choose to do so. You are able to earn experience, gain access to items and gather valuable coin through this form of PvP combat. This style of play is not only unpredictable, but ever-changing. The community dictates the pace ensuring that each battle is unique from the last.

From the earliest portions of the game straight on through to the high-end invasion campaigns, players will have the chance to take part in robust, meaningful PvP. The options that exist on the market at the moment really treat PvP like a dangerously "extreme" element of the MMO experience and go to great lengths to make it appeal only to a limited percentage of players. Part of this is out of necessity - poorly conceived PvP can be devastatingly off-putting to new players who set one foot out into the world and get murdered on the spot by griefers. So we see some games that restrict PvP to specialized servers or to high level characters in remote areas or that force players to queue up for an hour to go and play through "safe" content that exists outside of the persistent world entirely. It's no surprise that most MMO players eschew PvP for the traditionally more well-implemented PvE experience.

Others are already picking up where GW failed. I don't blame them for abandoning GW1 for a new start in GW2.

Randomway Ftw · Mar 18, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleslawdressin

I don't see what CS has to do with it. I would love to have the old altar holding thing back if it meant we had 8v8 again, but you know what... Realistically this is not going to happen ever. They spent all this time making changes and they aren't just going to cut them all. I would rather hold based on my skill than lose because some broken 8 paragon build you can't kill is holding.

The fact is the changes blow, and never should have been made in the first place, ANET should never have gone and done all this work without actualy listening to the opinions of real players, they should have brought back 8v8 before they decided to screw up the maps.

The problem with paragons is not just a problem with halls, its more of a problem with the idea of having unremovable, partywide buffs, some of which are uninteruptable. An 8 pragon setup may have screwed you over in old halls, but what about in some of the new objectives when both the teams decide they don't want you to win. Altar holding was an objective built for you to be able to win 2 v 1 but the new objectives are more based ob luck that the other teams will not decide to gank you.

Death_From_Above · Mar 18, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

whole prob with pargons is there like monks sort of, there defensive. Now if you look at monks, there defensive hence why sometimes if there a prob you drop them because there wat keep the team up. Now monks have normal armour so not like hard 2 kill but pargons got high armour so its like there keepin there whole team up yet you cant kill them. Whole prob is the high defence when they can be on the backline which makes killing a prob

Nadia Roark · Mar 18, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death_From_Above

Basicaly anet are being told how to become a good successful company by the HA community and all there doing is stepping on our advice.

That's an oversimplification of enormous proportions, mainly because there isn't one definable "party line" among the HA community. Different people want radically different things, as even a cursory examination of this (or any other thread) will show you instantly. To say that we're actually offering constructive business criticism is laughable at best. ANet is not being told how to "become a good successful company," they're being told that their players want a bunch of completely different and often wildly contradictory things. 8v8 alone will not catapult ANet to the Zenith of MMO Creation, and as much as most of us are probably dying to think otherwise, it will probably have a negligible impact on the remaining profits to be had from Guild Wars.

Also, it should go without saying that we alone do not constitute the "HA Community" and it can be very difficult for ANet to tell who is an established part of this community and who isn't. Due to my schedule and my general build elitism, for instance, I have a lower rank than some people who have been playing for a remarkably shorter period of time. It's easy to assume that someone who is now r7 or even r8 might not have ever played 'classic' 8v8, but some of us have and (perhaps more surprisingly) a few of us actually have more experience with it than the current (6v6) "elite" players. For this reason--and a slew of others--judging what should be done with HA based on ranked commentary is absurd. I have a wider scope of experience with HA than some r10s I know.

My biggest concern is that as this process drags on, the pro-8v8 community will reach the end of their collective rope (which is why I'm suggesting we settle the hell down) and will at some point cease playing HA or posting here. In this event, the "new blood" that has been raised on 6v6 will drown the rest of us out. As 6v6 stays around longer, more people become inured with it; and commentary from people who have experience in both formats (such as myself) will be lost to the winds.

coleslawdressin · Mar 18, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

Altar holding was an objective built for you to be able to win 2 v 1 but the new objectives are more based ob luck that the other teams will not decide to gank you.

When holding altars both teams DO gank you anyhow. When I actually played in the 8v8 test weekend we held on all of the relic and capture points no problem then lost altar holding because we weren't built to outheal 2 teams. I didn't say the new way is great..... It has all sorts of problems. Kill count just doesn't work in 3-way. There should be new maps for capture and relic. I don't think that just going back to altars though is worth it. That is based a lot on luck too. First you will need some crazy defense to hold, so you are lucky to cap the altar if another holding team is on. Is the 3rd team noob and attack you instead of helping you take down the ghost? Aww bad luck.

If you think there is any chance of them going back to the old way go for it. I don't think there is any chance so I won't argue it further. Also, I wasn't talking about 8 paragons really. I just meant any broken build that makes it nearly impossible to kill anything when the only objective is altar.

Master Ketsu · Mar 18, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenos Squad

Well...HoH is a INTERNATIONAL tournament and obviously the team for their country should have a reward until they are defeated in HoH, so I wouldn't exactly say they weren't linked in pve or pvp terms, but more of a insentive reward from ANet.

Everything else I agree with you btw!

Yes they should, but it should be a pvp reward, like double fame for the country thats holding halls. Making it have an effect on PvE is pointless, because the vast vast majority of players who are good enough to hold halls dont care about favor and dont care about FoW. Want proof ? Go to halls right now and ask how many people are there to earn favor so that they can later go do some farming. Listen to crickets chirp.

Rewards should be given to the people who do the work. Would it make sense to deny the country who has the least FoW farmers access to PvP isles ? No.

Randomway Ftw · Mar 18, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Yes they should, but it should be a pvp reward, like double fame for the country thats holding halls. Making it have an effect on PvE is pointless, because the vast vast majority of players who are good enough to hold halls dont care about favor and dont care about FoW. Want proof ? Go to halls right now and ask how many people are there to earn favor so that they can later go do some farming. Listen to crickets chirp.

You don't need to ask anything, the crickets chirp because halls is dead.

Orphan Anthem · Mar 18, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

In all seriousness i see no need to return to 8v8. The meta seems very balanced as it is

defrule · Mar 18, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

8v8 will return when this threads becomes 100 pages long.

Randomway Ftw · Mar 18, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orphan Anthem

In all seriousness i see no need to return to 8v8. The meta seems very balanced as it is

LOL

1234

coleslawdressin · Mar 19, 2007, 03:57 AM // 03:57

The meta seems very missing 2 players. Please explain how it is balanced when running anything resembling "balanced" forces you into taking up half of your team with monks and an earth ele. I haven't cared to look recently but let me take a guess that mesmers and degen teams are nearly non-existent.

MercenaryKnight · Mar 19, 2007, 04:44 AM // 04:44

I will laugh when another event comes all of a sudden and it becomes 10v10 or 12v12 for the HA. A whole new battlefield by offering more offensive characters added/ defensive ones.

The Real Roy Keane · Mar 19, 2007, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undressed

Bitterness? Why would I feel bitterness? For what? I enjoy my game, I even enjoyed 8vs8. What I laugh at is angry nerds with wrong priorities repeating themselves day and night, day and night about their special toy called HA which supposedly was stolen from them. That's real bitterness, in- and offgame.

QFT. Discontented geeks annoy me too.

Riotgear · Mar 19, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Anet should learn from WoW, theres a reason blizzard has more players.

Because WoW has about 10x as much PvE content.

And in the context of PvP, WoW is now more of a joke than ever, and arenas are help proving it. Everything is way too strong, CC spam is ridiculous.

Try to imagine if Eviscerate didn't cause DW, but instead was 1/2-sec and caused an unremovable condition that reduced healing by 50% for a few seconds. Oh yeah, Rend Enchantments also has no cooldown, and neither does Smite Hex. Meanwhile, almost every class has some way of knocking you down for 5 seconds.

That's WoW PvP. It's absurd. Please do not bring it up.

elektra_lucia · Mar 19, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

@ I Teh Mighty Warrior I - I was referring to the fact that it would be hard for them make fast, intelligent changes to HA,

Wrong. How can you say this? You use the words them? Sure if it was someone else, maybe, but them???

It's not hard for them to make fast intelligent changes. It's impossible for -them- to make fast intelligent changes.

Gaile Grey never seems to professional to me. She just seems like some random woman whos walked into an office and said what she's heard. Not trying to insult her, maybe that's the type of people they like.

My English is bad but to be fair I'm not representing a big company. Her English is shocking. I don't see why they can't have someone speak good English. It just makes me take her comments as seriously as a one legged racing competition.

''but believe me that's taking a guess''.

1) Why would anyone believe the person about anything 2) That comment is like : hi, I'll just try to cover my back here so no one criticizes. So, what have we? 1/3 of the statement written to try cover her back.

Also, people shouldn't have to visit a FAN Site to to see a comment from her because she spoke about PVP in a PVE area.

God Apprentice · Mar 19, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Wrong. How can you say this? You use the words them? Sure if it was someone else, maybe, but them???

It's not hard for them to make fast intelligent changes. It's impossible for -them- to make fast intelligent changes.

Gaile Grey never seems to professional to me. She just seems like some random woman whos walked into an office and said what she's heard. Not trying to insult her, maybe that's the type of people they like.

My English is bad but to be fair I'm not representing a big company. Her English is shocking. I don't see why they can't have someone speak good English. It just makes me take her comments as seriously as a one legged racing competition.

''but believe me that's taking a guess''.

1) Why would anyone believe the person about anything 2) That comment is like : hi, I'll just try to cover my back here so no one criticizes. So, what have we? 1/3 of the statement written to try cover her back.

Also, people shouldn't have to visit a FAN Site to to see a comment from her because she spoke about PVP in a PVE area.

I hate to echo your sentiment but I kinda started to wonder and I asked a r11 HAer, Do you think Gaile should represent us (the HAers). That person said no, and I said maybe is it because Gaile comes across as more PvE oriented, they said yes. I don't mean to bash Gaile, you guys have created a wonderful game, just things don't add up sometimes. Like I hear Izzy saying something on a radio show about not having good feedback from us, when we were assured you all read these forums

Nadia Roark · Mar 19, 2007, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

Like I hear Izzy saying something on a radio show about not having good feedback from us, when we were assured you all read these forums

Volume of feedback != good feedback.

He probably chose his words very deliberately. ANet doesn't get "good" feedback (at least not from us) because everyone wants something a little different, and about 90% of the ideas I see posted here to "improve" HA are garbage.

ANet isn't getting good feedback. They're getting a tounge lashing from about 2 or 3 dozen armchair CEOs.